The Tea on the Student Accessibility Advisory Committee

Elizabeth

Hello. I'm Elizabeth.

Jalesa

Hi, everyone. I'm Jalesa.

Elizabeth

And welcome to this episode of Accessibili-tea, where we sit down with Havina from the Student Accessibility Advisory Committee to spill some tea on a more accessible campus.

Jalesa

So grab your cup, sit back and get ready to sip on some hot tea.

Elizabeth

Havina, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and talking with us today. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, your academic background and little bit about what brought you to Western?

 

Havina

Yeah, so my name is Havina Rajeswaran. Thank you so much for having me. I'm in my final year of my BSc Honours Specialization in Nutrition and Dietetics at Brescia and I hope to aspire to become a dietitian. Fingers crossed if everything works out well then that's my end goal. I am currently a food lab assistant at Brescia and also the co-chair of the Student Accessibility Advisory Committee at Western, which I think we'll be talking a little bit about today.

Havina

So I'll get into more detail about that a little bit later. But if I'm not working and if I'm not studying I spend usually my free time cooking, recipe testing.

Elizabeth

Oh, okay. Anything, any favourites? Any favourites we should know about?

Havina

Oh, I don't know. I would say, like the thing I'm best at and I'm most known for is pasta. I always come up with like new and innovative ways to make different types of pasta. And I think that's the one food that I could eat for the rest of my life. Yeah. And then other than that, I really like to strength train at the gym.

Havina

Like, I do a lot of lifting. I find that it's like my therapy, my release, and I also like to read, and I definitely go adventuring with my friends in my free time. And what brought me here today is I would like to speak out about my role as the co-chair for the Student Accessibility Advisory Committee. I think that the work that we're doing is really important, and I would love to share with everyone sort of an idea of what we do.

Jalesa

Yeah, that's so awesome and sounds like so much fun. So I know you mentioned the Student Accessibility Advisory Committee. So can you tell us a little bit about what you do on the committee and what the committee is?

Havina

Yeah. So as I mentioned, before, I'm the co-chair. And so the committee is basically composed of a great group of students, and we work together to make recommendations regarding co-curricular, co-curricular programs--thats a tough word--supports and services for students with disabilities at Western. And we aim to identify the needs of students while also targeting any existing problems that we've discussed.

Havina

So, for example, we meet on a biweekly basis to talk about strategic plans for change and to raise awareness on issues that students face. And I believe that by having these discussions, we're able to focus on improving the student experience for anyone with disabilities. And I've always said this, but the world was not made for people with disabilities.

Havina

Life is already hard enough as it is, and especially as a university student. And having a disability on top of that is challenging. But I truly believe that fundamentally it doesn't have to be challenging if we were able to make everyone's academic experience easy and fulfilling. So my role as co-chair is basically to help run the meetings, encouraging people, discussions on issues that I think we should tackle.

Havina

Conversing with my co-chair, their name is Rand Clayton, about any change that we want to implement. So basically, to put it in a short and sweet way, I help to run the committee, I handle the logistics, facilitate the discussions and ultimately attempt to advance the work of the committee. So that means, you know, making sure that we're using our time wisely and that we're discussing things, that are, things that we can change that are in our scope.

Havina

But I would like to mention that this is a brand new role that was created alongside this committee this year. So my responsibilities change and develop as I work with the committee. And literally every single day I find something new to add on to my responsibilities or something new that I want to tackle. So I'm sort of building the role as I go and just sort of setting the stage for future co-chairs.

Havina

So it's a, it's a lot of pressure, but it's a lot of fun because I know that we are working towards something great.

Elizabeth

That's, that's really wonderful. I just wanted to ask a follow up. You know,

Elizabeth

You've kind of,

Elizabeth

Touched on. Can you tell us a little bit about what this committee really is like? What did it stem from? I guess, in other words.

Havina

Yeah. So there was a CAS review that was done last, I think it was last year, and there were certain things that were brought up in this review, issues basically. And one of the recommendations that was made was to build a committee of students. And I think that's a really beautiful thing because who better to talk about their experience than the students and to provide feedback and recommendations, and, and to talk about issues.

Havina

So basically, you know, an email was sent out and a lot of students with disabilities were, you know, encouraged to join this committee and to to bring forward their concerns and any of their lived experiences. And so we together as a committee, basically just talk about whatever issues there are that we feel are important. So, for example, if somebody had a concern, they would bring it up in a meeting and then we would talk about ways to be able to pass it up to a higher level so that that change can be implemented.

Havina

And that's the whole point of it, is just to be able to get that sort of experience, be able to see the university through the eyes of the student with a disability and how they would approach any solutions or recommendations based on the CAS review.

Jalesa

Awesome, I think that's such an important role. And why would you say this committee is important in other ways to our campus community?

Havina

Yeah. So you know, like I mentioned before, there's literally no one better than students themselves to suggest ideas and raise awareness and being able to hear about their lived experiences and paying attention to the recommendations is how I believe will eventually propel change that is necessary for the student experience. And I also found that every committee member has a lot of knowledge and a lot of experience to offer.

Havina

And so they basically represent a student body at Western. They are the voices of our community, and they communicate on behalf of all of us because there are thousands of us, but there's only a few of us on the committee. So we basically bring forward all of the necessary conversation that needs to be had. So I think that we have this committee composed of students so that they can create a safe, fair and accessible environment for all students.

Havina

And like I mentioned before, although that this committee is new, we have already made small movements in the right direction. And this committee allows for students to speak out about their academic careers in a safe way, because I know a lot of students are sometimes afraid to bring up these types of conversations with professors or with any type of faculty member.

Havina

And there wasn't really a space for them to do that, and there is now. So I think that it's great for both the students in the committee and the students who are not in the committee to be able to know that there's a place that this discussion is happening and I find that it's very empowering and comforting to have a place to do that, because even for me, itself like, you know, during the meetings, I talk a lot about my lived experiences and being able to do that.

Havina

You know, this is the first time I've ever been able to talk about any of my experiences as a student with an invisible disability. I never talked about it a lot with anybody else. Because I never felt comfortable, and, you know, to feel heard and to feel related to was very empowering for me. And I think eventually with time and with all the implementations that we're going to make, we'll see a better future and a better environment for students with disabilities.

Havina

And I think that it's important to have that safe place to talk about their experiences And so that's why I think it's really important.

Elizabeth

That's fantastic. Thank you so much. And, you know, what are some of the challenges that either you've experienced personally or that you've seen on campus or perhaps even heard about from other students around accessibility here on our campus?

Havina

Yeah. So I've identified a few challenges based on my experience and also the discussions that we facilitate in the meetings. But I would, I'll try to prioritize down a few of the main issues that I think are very important. And one of those big issues is, you know, the whole campus itself is not accessible to all students. There are some areas that offer difficulty, whether it's because there is no necessary equipment set up or there's no guidance or whatever it is, there's certain places that are still not accessible, to students with disabilities.

Havina

And I think that's a that's a huge concern and that's something that needs to be tackled right away. And it's really sad to hear that kind of stuff come up in the meetings. Where a student brings up a certain building and they're trying to reach a certain floor and they are unable to or it's very confusing. And I just think that that's a ridiculous barrier to have in an everyday life as a student.

Havina

So that's definitely one thing that I think is a hurdle that's not necessary, that we can we can change. So that's one issue that's definitely popped up. And the second thing which I'm very passionate about is issue around respect on campus in regards to communication. Many students have voiced that they have issues communicating with faculty and staff on campus.

Havina

I won't comment on any specific scenarios, but I think there's a large discrepancy between students with disabilities and professors and other faculty. I personally faced this issue where I found that, like I told you before, I couldn't communicate with professors or a faculty member because I was worried about their, their judgment or worried about being more worried about even bothering them.

Havina

There's this whole huge stereotype that, you know, I feel like I'm a difficult student or that I assume that's hard to deal with, and that's not true, right? And a lot of students feel that way. And I think that that respect and the communication is a big thing that we need to tackle. And lastly, I would say, which is an issue that was brought up in one of our meetings is accessibility to resources. 

Havina

And it's been brought to our attention in these meetings. And we're definitely trying to focus on creating new resources. Just in the last meeting, we talked about discussing or we talked about implementing an app that students can use that has like directions and resources and such on it that our students can use every day, for example, to be able to know where a class is and how to access it and how to, transportation to get there, etc., etc..

Havina

So these are the types of discussions and challenges that we're talking about on a biweekly basis.

Jalesa

Thank you so much for sharing those. I can definitely resonate with, you know, speaking to profs and I think an app would definitely be a great start because even myself, there are so many buildings where even finding the elevator is a struggle. So I think it would definitely be helpful for students to just have that information available to them.

Jalesa

So in light of these challenges that you've addressed, how do you plan to work through these challenges as a co-chair of the committee?

Havina

Yeah. So, you know, this is something that I've thought about even before I applied for the role. I asked myself, what, what can I really do? What can I bring that's, you know, that's important and that's valuable. And I would say my, my first and foremost main goal is to be able to make sure that the challenges that are brought up are discussed and that every single committee member or every single student who raises these issues to me knows that they're being heard.

Havina

So that's the very first step. And I made a personal promise to all my committee members when I applied for this role that I would make sure to facilitate those hard discussions, the discussions that are uncomfortable, the discussions that are sensitive, because I want to make sure that students feel like they're heard. And so I would say my main priority is to be able to provide that environment for students and once they've brought it to my attention, I will do my best to make sure that information goes where it's needed to be able to implement change.

Havina

So whether that's information that goes directly to my co-chair, or if it goes above us to like an implementation committee or if it goes to Accessible Education or Western Student Experience, wherever it needs to go, I try to make sure that the information is passed on there. And I would say my next priority is making sure that I find ways to solve problems because, you know, it's great to be able to pass on that information to whoever it needs to go to.

Havina

But I think students also need guidance on how to handle situations on a daily basis until that change is made. So usually what I'll do is I'll make notes during the meetings and then offer at the end what I like to call the silver lining. I tell students what my suggestions are, what my solutions are, And so, you know, for example, if I think that for the temporary time that, you know, a student can reach out to this resource, for example, I'll make sure to let them know of that. And I would say also, you know, I've seen the channel of communication.

Havina

As you know, the committee members are representing the student body as a whole. And then I represent the committee members. And so by representing the committee members, I make sure that I'm advocating on their behalf. So whatever needs that they want or need to be met, I will try to make sure to do that. And I think that's the only really way to be able to induce change on my end with the scope that I have...

Havina

...yeah. That's sort of a rough idea of how I plan to address these challenges and bring on change.

Elizabeth

You know, you mentioned something that I want to pedal back to. You talked a little bit about people, students in particular, not wanting to approach faculty about accommodations because they might be seen as that difficult student, or that student that just wants extra, a student maybe that's being perceived unfairly as the poster child that didn't really do the work to get into the university.

Elizabeth

How do we dispel such large misconceptions around accommodations and students with disabilities, do you think?

Havina

Yeah. So I think the very first thing and I've been advocating for this for a while, is being able to educate our professors and our faculty because I think there is a little bit of, sort of a discrepancy there, where some professors don't really understand how to communicate with students with disabilities or they don't understand that it's very important to go in and look to see if that student, if they're signed up with Accessible Education.

Havina

And if they are, then what are their accommodations and how can you work with them? I think there's sort of a little bit of a gap there. I think that's the first thing that we need to do is make sure that all faculty members understand or have given some sort of training or guidance or education on how to do that, because it's a tricky situation on both ends, I would say.

Havina

But like, you know, for example, if I were to go to a faculty member, whether that's an academic advisor or a professor and say, you know what? There's a huge stressful period of time for me right now, and I do have an accommodation to get an extension on the assignment. But, you know, I want to work with you on that.

Havina

Can I have it for an extra week or two weeks because of this issue? I would like to be able to have that conversation. But quite frankly, it's very just methodical usually in the sense that if, you know, if your accommodation says that you get an extra day, then that's kind of all you get. But sometimes, you know, there are situations that you can explain, especially for a student with disabilities, like our lives are challenging and difficult and very sort of all over the place on a daily basis, at least personally.

Havina

For me and hearing a lot about, you know, these types of stories where students feel like, you know, professors have either made them feel with the energy that, you know, that they're troublesome or even have actually told them. I have heard stories where professors will say some really inappropriate things to students. That's the reason why we even have these type of stereotypes.

Havina

But I hope that, you know, with our committee and, you know, by having these types of podcasts, we're able to, like you said, dispel that type of stereotype because we keep talking about it and we raise awareness. And I think it's important for everyone to be able to listen to that and understand that their disability is not trying to be difficult.

Havina

All they're trying to do is adapt in a world where there is that extra hurdle and I think, you know, instead of judging students for that, we should be telling them, you know what, I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud that you're making these steps forward and that your, you know, nothing's going to get in your way and, you know, I'm here for you and offer the support that they need.

Havina

And I think a lot of that has to come from facilitating these discussions with the university itself. And that's a challenging thing to do because we're talking about a university as a whole and talking about a lot of faculty members, talking about a lot of professors, a lot of different people and it has to be accepted by everybody because a lot of the times when it comes to academic processing and things like that, paperwork, there's

Havina

So many steps and so if you have, you know, if you look at like, I don't know, the chain of command and you have somebody at the top and they understand and then the next person understands and you know, you have three or four people who are on board but then you all of a sudden have five or six people underneath them who are not.

Havina

That creates issues and that creates problems. And that's exactly what we're trying to fix. So it's a huge deal and it's a lot of work that's needed to be able to dispel that type of stereotypes. But I think with time with change and with a lot of discussions, we'll be able to do that.

Jalesa

Thank you so much for sharing I really appreciate just how you talk about the role of the committee and how they're working to dispel those myths and stereotypes. And I think so many students, you know, will appreciate the work that you're doing. So we know the pandemic has changed accessibility on campus for students in many ways. Can you talk a little bit about that and what are some things that have worked well during the pandemic and some things that did not work so well in terms of accessibility?

Havina

Yeah, so I actually really like that you brought this up because we actually talked about this in our last meeting and spent a huge chunk of the meeting talking about the effects of the pandemic on students with disabilities. And I would just like to point out that obviously the pandemic has made school hard for all students. You know, we have been in this constant limbo between online and in-person learning for a few years now.

Havina

And we've all had to adapt to Zoom and working from home. And, you know, that's something that was not really part of everyday life before. So it's definitely been a rollercoaster for all of us. But as much as, you know, we've all been working very, very hard. I think that, you know, I've came to realize that students with disabilities, specifically those who are immunocompromised, have not been spoken to regarding their needs and how the university will help work with them so that they can participate in their academics while also staying safe.

Havina

And this is an issue that was brought up in the last meeting by a student who said, you know, we as a committee are here to be able to offer advice and recommendations. So why haven't we been approached by Western to be able to identify, you know, how the pandemic has been affecting us. And it actually sparked this light bulb in my mind.

Havina

I was like, wow, like, you know, we do have this committee here for that exact reason. So why haven't we been asked about this? Why hasn't our recommendation been even considered? And so I would like to say that it's definitely a huge issue. And we're trying to work towards bringing upon change for this. Just recently, many classes have gone back to in-person learning, and it's left some students frustrated because they feel like they don't have a choice but to risk exposure so they can go to their class and go on campus.

Havina

And I think that's absolutely ridiculous and unfair because we're talking about student safety here. You know, it's not only just about their willingness to come to campus, but also if they're immunocompromised or if they face challenges being able to get to school, they shouldn't have to go through that. And, you know, I'm a student with an invisible disability myself, and I found it difficult to constantly transition between in-person and online learning, especially when classes are asynchronous.

Havina

And I've seen that some professors are working with the times. They're understanding and supportive, but some are not. And this is a difficult period of change, and it's hard to navigate. But I really wish there was more push from faculty to reach out to students with disabilities and figure out, you know, additional resources and support systems that they can implement on their end to work with us.

Havina

And I haven't really seen that. And I think the only way to solve this issue is if we work together. So we've definitely had more than enough time to have these discussions. But unfortunately, they haven't really happened recently. And it's upsetting to me to hear that many students have suffered as a result of this negligence. So, you know, again, like I said, we talked about it in the previous class and we've passed up all of the discussion and the meeting minutes up, you know, to be able to make this change happen.

Havina

So I definitely think that's a downside of the pandemic for students. I think maybe if we're looking at an upside, I would definitely say that, you know, for me especially, speaking on my behalf, I actually like being able to go into online learning. At first I hated it because, you know, adapting to change is difficult for all of us.

Havina

But as I sort of got used to it, I kind of like working from home because I didn't have to sort of face, you know, the social anxiety of being in class or, you know, for me because I have ADHD, it's sometimes very difficult to even just leave the house. And so that really helped me personally.

Havina

And I know a lot of other students said the same thing. And a lot of students do actually want to be able to learn from home. They find that it's more comfortable. There's a lot of, you know, they're avoiding a lot of their symptoms and a lot of those mitigating factors by learning online. So I do think that's a plus side.

Havina

And I think it's definitely brought to light a lot of the issues that maybe we didn't know existed before the pandemic. So we can talk about these types of issues further down the road. So, yeah, it's facilitated that type of discussion so I think that's a good thing.

Elizabeth

That's really important. And I think you're right there are so many lessons learned through the pandemic, and it's sort of like this reckoning, like we come out and we're like, what do we really want to see on the other side and how do we want to bring some of those learnings through with us? And so what would you say are one or two changes that you would like to see the university implement as a result of those lessons learned?

Elizabeth

In those moments of discovery during COVID?

Havina

Yeah. So on the topic of the pandemic, I would, and, you know, on the impacts that it has on students with disabilities, I would say the first task at hand is to make lectures and coursework more accessible for all students. So I would like to see all classes have the options for students, whether that's through Zoom or some other type of platform, because I want students to be able to receive an uncompromised education without having to sacrifice their safety or their academic performance.

Havina

So I definitely think, you know, speaking with the times, because we're always constantly transitioning from in-person to online classes, I think that it's definitely about time now that professors have made all of their classes have that option, especially if you have accommodations for accessible education that says you have to be able to work from home. I think all professors should be able to provide that option.

Havina

You know, we're talking about safety here. So I think that's definitely a big issue. I would say my next priority, like I've mentioned before, is to help bridge the gap between students and faculty. I want students to be able to feel comfortable voicing their opinions and needs to professors while also having, you know, creating resources for professors as well to be able to educate themselves on how to approach students with disabilities.

Havina

And to be honest, I think it's a simple, simple problem. And it's just communication. I think that there are discrepancies on both ends of the conversation. But students are usually advised to go speak to Accessible Education or to go to their academic advisors to communicate with professors. And I think that having this stream of communication really complicates things because it adds a lot of pressure onto the students to be able to you know, make sure that they follow all of the steps.

Havina

But also, you're involving a lot of middlemen in the communication. And I think that, you know, reaching out and getting that type of accommodation really shouldn't be that complicated and timely. And I think it's you know, it's really important to be able to have direct communication with professors, because if you think about it, at the end of the day, the course itself is run by the professors.

Havina

So all of the ultimate decisions are made by them. You know, how long your accommodation is or what type of assignment you hand in or whether you work in a group or not or what's on the exams and what's on the assignments. All of that is up to the professor because they are the ones that are running the course.

Havina

So I don't really see why we need to have all of these people in the middle. It just adds on a lot of work, and a lot of people have told me in the committee meetings that they feel like the process to get accommodation for something is even longer than doing the assignment itself. Sometimes they're waiting one or two weeks to hear back from faculty, especially if there's like long weekends or Reading Week involved and things like that, or if somebody, a faculty member is off, you know, they're waiting days, weeks on end.

Havina

And I think that's unfair. So I think that the only logical thing is for students to reach out to the professors themselves and to work with the professors directly. And like I said before, in order to make that happen, we need to be able to help both parties communicate effectively and respectfully. So I think that the way to do this, I hope, in the future is to be able to have a representative, a group of representatives who help students reach out to professors.

Havina

So to make sure that we're avoiding any conflict or anything like that. And, you know, also, so the student feels safe and comfortable, they have a representative there who is not biased or anything like that. And also, we implement an education system that all professors have to take in regards to being able to understand pedagogical training on how to communicate with students.

Havina

So I would like to see those two things for the future. I would say if there's definitely one issue that I'm sort of driving towards, it's that and I hope that, you know, that happens in my time.

Jalesa

Yeah, I really appreciate you sharing that. And I know you've mentioned multiple times that a lot of students are uncomfortable talking about their needs or just the changes that need to happen. So I really appreciate you just taking on that role and just being very bold and honest about what needs to get done. So for the final question, we're implementing a segment called Spilling the Tea.

Jalesa

So we have a two part question for you. What are some misconceptions surrounding the committee to action process and what is something you want someone to know or take away?

Havina

Yeah, so I actually really like that you added this segment because one thing I've definitely learned by having this role is that even my understanding of what the committee does or even just the role of Accessible Education and Western Student Experience, it was always sort of a blurred understanding. And now I'm starting to see with a lot more transparency because I am involved in it and it's very complex and it's not as easy as I thought it was going to be.

Havina

And I think, you know, as a student who doesn't, you know, is not in this role, you may also have that misconception as well. So I would say it's you know, the biggest misconception is regarding the capacity of what and how change happens So, you know, although we as a committee meet and discuss these issues and solutions, the change doesn't really happen at our scope.

Havina

So if you think about it in a way of levels, you know, a little bit like a pyramid, for example. Our level in the pyramid is not where the change itself happens, we just facilitate the discussions. We talk about the issues. We raise awareness. We come up with solutions, and then we pass it onwards. And so I think that's definitely one thing that needs to be made in order to be able to understand sort of how the levels work.

Havina

So the best thing that we can do is, you know, move our recommendations up the stream to other committees and sectors within Student Experience and Accessible Education. So it does take time to make these changes happen. And that was one thing that sort of hit me hard within the first couple of meetings, was I realized that I don't know if this is necessarily going to happen in a few months or a year or two years.

Havina

I think it's definitely something that's down the road for the future. But either way, it needs to happen and it's better now than never. But that is definitely one misconception. And, you know, at the end of the day, we're a brand new committee. We've only been operating for a few months. And so figuring out all of the logistics as we go is basically just a trial and error.

Havina

And, you know, we've had a few meetings where, you know, we've planned an agenda to be like ABCD, and then we ended up being X, Y, Z. And that's just how it goes. Especially when you have discussions. You know, one thing leads to another. And I actually kind of like it like that because I think that that really helps highlight the issues that are most important to us.

Havina

And the most sort of present issues that are happening. But again, it does sort of lead us in a different time to be able to navigate and to sort it all out. So I would like anyone listening to this podcast to understand that we are working as hard as we can to use our time wisely and to implement that change.

Havina

And if you don't see it happen right away, I do apologize and I wish things worked faster. But this is a reality of the situation. But again, I'm the type of person that always likes to offer a silver lining. So I can say that my silver lining that I can offer as a co-chair of this committee is that I promise to commit as much time and energy and effort as I can and I will work hard as I can to be able to safely say that even all myself and my peers are going to work hard.

Havina

And I encourage any student to reach out to me via email. I'm sure you'll have sort of my information somewhere in the details of the podcast, but please reach out to me with any comments or concerns or suggestions. Your voice is always heard with me, and I think it's necessary if people communicate with me so that I can understand what needs to be done.

Havina

If people don't tell me, then I don't know. I can only offer my lived experience so it's really great to be able to hear the suggestions from all students. And, you know, you can always follow along with us as well. If you go to the Western Student Experience website and you look under the top section of Accessible Education and you can go down to the Student Accessibility Advisory Committee, you'll find information about what type of work we do,

Havina

Who is part of the committee, and we have our little bios and headshots in there. So you get to know and put a face to the committee as well. And also we post on there our meeting agendas and minutes so that you can follow along because we believe in transparency. We want students to be able to know what we talk about, or what's on the menu, because we do represent all students.

Havina

And I think that's definitely important.

Elizabeth

That's really important. Absolutely. Bringing, bringing your own voice, but then knowing that, you know, your experiences is yours and it can't be sort of generalized to other experiences. So I love that sort of breadth and depth, the voices. Havina, I really want to thank you for taking the time to tell us a little bit about you, your background, your work with the Student Accessibility Advisory Committee, your hopes and dreams for Western.

Elizabeth

I want to wish you the best of luck in your studies. I think that your lived experience is going to make you a fantastic clinician, dietitian, if that's what you choose to pursue. And I just wanted to say that I can tell I can hear the passion in your voice, and I'm really excited about where this committee is going.

Elizabeth

So as a member of the committee, I feel like we're in very good hands. So thank you again for being with us today.

Havina

Yes, thank you so much. I'm really grateful for this opportunity to come and speak on this on this podcast. I like being able to have any type of platform to be able to do that, to facilitate these type of discussions. And I think that we're all moving in the right direction. And if we continue to work together at this rate, we're definitely going to make Western one of the most accessible campuses, hopefully in Canada.

Havina

So thank you again so much for having me.

Jalesa

Thank you for listening to this episode of Accessibili-tea.

Elizabeth

Stay tuned for our next episode coming soon.